Post by nailea on Nov 13, 2006 22:16:43 GMT -5
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:09 pm
Topic: Natural disasters, their effects and do you think they are foretold in the bible.
What up nubs?! My name is Phoenix, but everyone calls me "Ian" cuz it's my name, and I'll be leading this wonderful discussion entitled "Natural Disasters and what the Bible says about them." So...let's get started.
Ian's Two Cents
Well, after Hurricanes Rita, Katrina, and the Tsunami, many people in my community were looking for answers. My local church did a sermon on this very topic. I'm trying to remember a sermon from about a year ago, so....cut me some slack.
Basically, we determined that natural disasters can be:
1) Simply a product of living in a sinful world. While God is in total control, He allows natural calamities to occur. In a perfect world (pre sin) there would be no natural disasters.
2) Natural disasters can be a punishment from God. See: Noah, Elijah and the drought, Moses and the plagues, all of deuteronomy, etc.
3) Natural disasters can also be a harbinger of the end times. During the second coming of Christ, millions will die in disasters like earthquakes.
My opinion: While I do believe that the end times are fast approaching, I do not believe that these recent events are heralds. Also, I believe that God is storing up His wrath until the end times, so I doubt it's punishment. Therefore....basically...crap happens (inside of HIS divine will)
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Roxinos
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:54 pm
I believe whole-heartedly in the idea of free-will. I do believe in God, but I do not believe he influences this world. Sure, he has the ability to, but I do not believe that he does. He gave us free will, and if he took any action in this world, it would be stripping us of our free will.
As such, I don't believe any of the aforementioned disasters are anything but natural. And by natural I mean entirely explainable by science. And I also believe all natural disasters (Tornadoes and such) are all just nature working the way it's supposed to. Those retards who live in the way of a tornado and then say that God will protect them are begging to have their bodys splattered over a 100 mile radius.
_________________
Nae'blis Roxinos
Bonded to Tess
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:46 pm
that's.....pleasant.....and not the topic. The topic is ABOUT how it relates to the bible, so if you don't believe in it....then I guess you've contributed all you can
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
elmindreda
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: errrm..... lost somewhere in england ..... i think
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:57 pm
(sorry if this is a bit squiffy cause im not religious anymore)
i dont think it sybolises the second coming of christ because i believe all of the signs of his second comings are sybolism and i do not believe things are that drastic anymore
another this is that if god is all loving why would he punish us? because he is meant to be all loving aswell
and i suppose you could argue that i believe they are natural disasters in the sense they can be science based because if god is all powerful then why doesnt he use his power to end it because it would no affect our free will because you cannot chose to have an eathquake
my final point is that god could just be doing this to show his almighty power to try and get us to fear him but i sincerely doubt that aswell because he wants us to love him not fear him
_________________
~bonded to Kadere ~ bonded to Kepen~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:29 pm
"Be sure to fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart; consider what great things he has done for you." -1 Samuel 12:23
Also read Revelation 19 - God is scary!
My friend says this all the time: Our God is not a gay god that sits around on a cloud, stroking a pink lamb. We are meant to live in fear of God.
I don't think God really punishes anymore, though Hebrews 12 says he disciplines those he loves.
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Roxinos
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:00 pm
Oh. Wait. I'm sorry. Yes it was on topic. The topic may be on how it relates to the Bible, but if I don't believe that it relates to the Bible in any way shape or form, then it's relating directly to it.
It's a discussion, my friend. And a discussion will get people who don't believe in it as well as people who do. While I don't believe, me saying I don't believe is not necessarily all I can provide. If someone who does believe comes in, I can choose to try and shoot down what they're saying.
*stabs*
_________________
Nae'blis Roxinos
Bonded to Tess
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tessandra
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:06 pm
Play nice kids.
I'll add my piece tomorrow
ETA: If you can't be civil towards each other this discussion WILL be deleted and all points earned will be thrown down the drain!
_________________
Aiel Friend to Myrelle & Nailea | Mentor to Magic-Fanatic & Jhaelarra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tessandra
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:32 pm
As can be seen since Hurricane Katrina and the Tsunami, natural disasters have a worldwide effect on everyone.
Cited from Wikipedia:
"Katrina is estimated to be responsible for $81.2 billion (2005 US dollars) in damages, making it the costliest hurricane in U.S. history. The storm killed at least 1,836 people, making it the deadliest U.S. hurricane since the 1928 Okeechobee Hurricane."
Not only that but countries like Kuwait, Qatar, India, China, and Pakistan offered monetary donations while countries like Canada, Singapore, Mexico and Germany offered supplies and labor.
Also with the 2004 Tsunami, nations all over the world contributed a total of over $7 billion dollars in aid.
These natural disasters have had a huge impact on the entire world. But which do you think has taken a greater toll? The economies or the environment? And why?
Also, why I may believe that the end of times are fast approaching, I don't see these particular events as a sign from God as foretold in Revelations.
_________________
Aiel Friend to Myrelle & Nailea | Mentor to Magic-Fanatic & Jhaelarra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:18 am
Roxy....I'm sorry. That was way out of line, and I didn't mean it. I confess that I was not showing God's love, or being a light. I'm not trying to make excuses, but I've been going through a lot. My grandma is dying, I'm getting ready for college, and I'm really having trouble saying goodbye to all my friends.
Tess - I will step up and be the leader, sorry i haven't been.
About economies vs. environment:
I think that the environment is very resilient. Hurricanes exist to help it. When the water gets too hot, hurricanes form and cool it off. It's a natural pressure release. And after seeing New Orleans....it's gonna take years to reover just the building damage and infrastructure. I can't imagine how long to return investment, output, and labor to normal....
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jaydena
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:17 pm
*nods* This discussion was not meant to be purely about any sort of biblical aspect. So economics is good to talk about as well. Well obviously the recent and not so recent distaster have negatively affected the economies of many of these countries. I mean poor Indonesia, isn't even done dealing with the Tsunami and boom and earthquake. It's so sad, their economy is down the tubes. *sighs* I will post more when I am coherent!
_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Raena
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:03 am
I'm not religious, so I think natural disasters are.. natural.
As others have already said, it's obvious that natural disasters affect the economy of a country in a negative way. It's never good when a natural disaster occurs, but it's almost even worse when they occur in a poor country.
_________________
Aiel initiate
Novice, mentee to Chaelca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:10 am
actually, one could argue that it is better that a disaster happened in a poor area than a "rich" one.
You could say that it's better to lose old fashioned or cheaper stuff than state of the art, highly expensive stuff. Plus, because it's a major disaster, the country gets aid from all around the world. I doubt indonesia lost 7 billion dollars of output (though the cost in lives is infinitely higher...). Plus, entrepreneurs see a disaster as a chance to change, to invest, to redefine. With all the attention New Orleans and indonesia got, there has got to be a significant amount of investment - or at least potential investment
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tessandra
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:40 pm
That's actually a rather good point. It's a chance to rebuild and hopefully start something new and better than before.
_________________
Aiel Friend to Myrelle & Nailea | Mentor to Magic-Fanatic & Jhaelarra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:10 am
I think that a lot of the time, people get complacent. We get comfortable, and sometimes the only way to galvanize us into action is through a tragedy. Look at Pearl Harbor, 9/11, the London and Madrid bombings, hurricanes, earthquakes, and tsunamis.
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
elmindreda
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: errrm..... lost somewhere in england ..... i think
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
i thinks its a shame that we have to have a disaster for us to appreciate things. but i now that when i was involved in an erthquake i certainly appreciated things more
_________________
~bonded to Kadere ~ bonded to Kepen~
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:09 pm
Topic: Natural disasters, their effects and do you think they are foretold in the bible.
What up nubs?! My name is Phoenix, but everyone calls me "Ian" cuz it's my name, and I'll be leading this wonderful discussion entitled "Natural Disasters and what the Bible says about them." So...let's get started.
Ian's Two Cents
Well, after Hurricanes Rita, Katrina, and the Tsunami, many people in my community were looking for answers. My local church did a sermon on this very topic. I'm trying to remember a sermon from about a year ago, so....cut me some slack.
Basically, we determined that natural disasters can be:
1) Simply a product of living in a sinful world. While God is in total control, He allows natural calamities to occur. In a perfect world (pre sin) there would be no natural disasters.
2) Natural disasters can be a punishment from God. See: Noah, Elijah and the drought, Moses and the plagues, all of deuteronomy, etc.
3) Natural disasters can also be a harbinger of the end times. During the second coming of Christ, millions will die in disasters like earthquakes.
My opinion: While I do believe that the end times are fast approaching, I do not believe that these recent events are heralds. Also, I believe that God is storing up His wrath until the end times, so I doubt it's punishment. Therefore....basically...crap happens (inside of HIS divine will)
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Roxinos
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:54 pm
I believe whole-heartedly in the idea of free-will. I do believe in God, but I do not believe he influences this world. Sure, he has the ability to, but I do not believe that he does. He gave us free will, and if he took any action in this world, it would be stripping us of our free will.
As such, I don't believe any of the aforementioned disasters are anything but natural. And by natural I mean entirely explainable by science. And I also believe all natural disasters (Tornadoes and such) are all just nature working the way it's supposed to. Those retards who live in the way of a tornado and then say that God will protect them are begging to have their bodys splattered over a 100 mile radius.
_________________
Nae'blis Roxinos
Bonded to Tess
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:46 pm
that's.....pleasant.....and not the topic. The topic is ABOUT how it relates to the bible, so if you don't believe in it....then I guess you've contributed all you can
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
elmindreda
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: errrm..... lost somewhere in england ..... i think
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:57 pm
(sorry if this is a bit squiffy cause im not religious anymore)
i dont think it sybolises the second coming of christ because i believe all of the signs of his second comings are sybolism and i do not believe things are that drastic anymore
another this is that if god is all loving why would he punish us? because he is meant to be all loving aswell
and i suppose you could argue that i believe they are natural disasters in the sense they can be science based because if god is all powerful then why doesnt he use his power to end it because it would no affect our free will because you cannot chose to have an eathquake
my final point is that god could just be doing this to show his almighty power to try and get us to fear him but i sincerely doubt that aswell because he wants us to love him not fear him
_________________
~bonded to Kadere ~ bonded to Kepen~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:29 pm
"Be sure to fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart; consider what great things he has done for you." -1 Samuel 12:23
Also read Revelation 19 - God is scary!
My friend says this all the time: Our God is not a gay god that sits around on a cloud, stroking a pink lamb. We are meant to live in fear of God.
I don't think God really punishes anymore, though Hebrews 12 says he disciplines those he loves.
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Roxinos
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:00 pm
Oh. Wait. I'm sorry. Yes it was on topic. The topic may be on how it relates to the Bible, but if I don't believe that it relates to the Bible in any way shape or form, then it's relating directly to it.
It's a discussion, my friend. And a discussion will get people who don't believe in it as well as people who do. While I don't believe, me saying I don't believe is not necessarily all I can provide. If someone who does believe comes in, I can choose to try and shoot down what they're saying.
*stabs*
_________________
Nae'blis Roxinos
Bonded to Tess
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tessandra
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:06 pm
Play nice kids.
I'll add my piece tomorrow
ETA: If you can't be civil towards each other this discussion WILL be deleted and all points earned will be thrown down the drain!
_________________
Aiel Friend to Myrelle & Nailea | Mentor to Magic-Fanatic & Jhaelarra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tessandra
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:32 pm
As can be seen since Hurricane Katrina and the Tsunami, natural disasters have a worldwide effect on everyone.
Cited from Wikipedia:
"Katrina is estimated to be responsible for $81.2 billion (2005 US dollars) in damages, making it the costliest hurricane in U.S. history. The storm killed at least 1,836 people, making it the deadliest U.S. hurricane since the 1928 Okeechobee Hurricane."
Not only that but countries like Kuwait, Qatar, India, China, and Pakistan offered monetary donations while countries like Canada, Singapore, Mexico and Germany offered supplies and labor.
Also with the 2004 Tsunami, nations all over the world contributed a total of over $7 billion dollars in aid.
These natural disasters have had a huge impact on the entire world. But which do you think has taken a greater toll? The economies or the environment? And why?
Also, why I may believe that the end of times are fast approaching, I don't see these particular events as a sign from God as foretold in Revelations.
_________________
Aiel Friend to Myrelle & Nailea | Mentor to Magic-Fanatic & Jhaelarra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:18 am
Roxy....I'm sorry. That was way out of line, and I didn't mean it. I confess that I was not showing God's love, or being a light. I'm not trying to make excuses, but I've been going through a lot. My grandma is dying, I'm getting ready for college, and I'm really having trouble saying goodbye to all my friends.
Tess - I will step up and be the leader, sorry i haven't been.
About economies vs. environment:
I think that the environment is very resilient. Hurricanes exist to help it. When the water gets too hot, hurricanes form and cool it off. It's a natural pressure release. And after seeing New Orleans....it's gonna take years to reover just the building damage and infrastructure. I can't imagine how long to return investment, output, and labor to normal....
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jaydena
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:17 pm
*nods* This discussion was not meant to be purely about any sort of biblical aspect. So economics is good to talk about as well. Well obviously the recent and not so recent distaster have negatively affected the economies of many of these countries. I mean poor Indonesia, isn't even done dealing with the Tsunami and boom and earthquake. It's so sad, their economy is down the tubes. *sighs* I will post more when I am coherent!
_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Raena
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:03 am
I'm not religious, so I think natural disasters are.. natural.
As others have already said, it's obvious that natural disasters affect the economy of a country in a negative way. It's never good when a natural disaster occurs, but it's almost even worse when they occur in a poor country.
_________________
Aiel initiate
Novice, mentee to Chaelca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:10 am
actually, one could argue that it is better that a disaster happened in a poor area than a "rich" one.
You could say that it's better to lose old fashioned or cheaper stuff than state of the art, highly expensive stuff. Plus, because it's a major disaster, the country gets aid from all around the world. I doubt indonesia lost 7 billion dollars of output (though the cost in lives is infinitely higher...). Plus, entrepreneurs see a disaster as a chance to change, to invest, to redefine. With all the attention New Orleans and indonesia got, there has got to be a significant amount of investment - or at least potential investment
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tessandra
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:40 pm
That's actually a rather good point. It's a chance to rebuild and hopefully start something new and better than before.
_________________
Aiel Friend to Myrelle & Nailea | Mentor to Magic-Fanatic & Jhaelarra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
phoenix
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:10 am
I think that a lot of the time, people get complacent. We get comfortable, and sometimes the only way to galvanize us into action is through a tragedy. Look at Pearl Harbor, 9/11, the London and Madrid bombings, hurricanes, earthquakes, and tsunamis.
_________________
I am Life! And Fire Incarnate! Now and Forevermore...I...AM... PHOENIX!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
elmindreda
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: errrm..... lost somewhere in england ..... i think
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
i thinks its a shame that we have to have a disaster for us to appreciate things. but i now that when i was involved in an erthquake i certainly appreciated things more
_________________
~bonded to Kadere ~ bonded to Kepen~